Thank you for allowing me to share the link here, @Umbris. I am going to explain why I am making the new forum and how it will be different. In the process I’m going to give ideas that you can theoretically borrow from me. I borrowed the idea of a burp fetish forum from you and your team, so it’s only fair that you can, if you choose, adopt some of the policies and stances I am going to lay out here. Mind you, I and others have been suggesting these things for a long time. I’ve also asked for years to be a mod and never received replies to my PMs, but to be fair, this is probably because I have gotten into arguments with people in this community (some more on that below). This is frustrating, because I believe change is needed within this community. Since my friends and I do not have the power to make those changes, we feel the only option is to start a new community.
For the record, I don’t think the staff here never does anything right. I also don’t dislike them personally. I was glad, for example, when they banned a certain individual from this forum recently, even though I wish it had happened much sooner. I am also aware of the (as of yet unrealized) plan to recruit more mods. I don’t think this will be adequate, however, unless other things change as well. Here are some particular issues with which we are dissatisfied, and have been for a long time:
WHY WE ARE DOING THIS:
(1) INADEQUATE POLICIES ON UNDERAGE CONTENT
On this forum, it is presently not against the rules to share videos with very small children in them, as long as they are “not the primary focus of the video”. There is also no rule that the subject of the video be 18 or older–I cannot locate the post (was it deleted?), but I recall Umbris making a ruling a few months ago that the primary subject of a video does not have to be under 18, as long as they are not a “child”. Not only is this a really ambiguous policy, it is, frankly, extremely problematic and weird. This is a fetish site, and when you submit material here, no matter its origin, it is automatically rebranded as fapping material. You can’t share fapping material with kids in it. You just can’t. A lot of people were disturbed, publicly but also behind the scenes, when latter ruling was made. It’s too out of sync with the basic tenets of decent society. And there is a question about it–who thinks this okay, and why are they in charge here? True, a lot of people don’t mind. But that’s because these policies have been normalized over decades, starting back when this was a Yahoo group run by a bunch of 17-20 somethings here who are now all in their late 20s at minimum. It should not be normalized, and it’s a paradigm case in which the server culture hasn’t matured over the decades.
Moreover, the current rule isn’t even well enforced. Content featuring children is easy to find. Again, I am aware of Umbris’s stated intention to hire more mods, and I will say more on that later, but until that comes to fruition it really doesn’t amount to a satisfactory response.
What we will do differently: sharing real or fictional content with minors is categorically, unequivocally forbidden. We will intervene if you do this, on or off the forums. Here’s the language of the rule in which we explain this:
All persons featured in a video or audio clip must have been 18 or over at the time the clip was filmed. It does not matter whether or not the person is the primary focus of the video; no minors. Period. We take this rule very seriously. When in doubt, ask a server staff member before sharing. We also do not allow fictional content featuring depictions of minors, and we will not be persuaded by loopholes, eg “she’s an ancient goddess who takes the form of a child.”
Some caveats–
First, no, you’re not required to prove a person’s age when you post content on the new forum. But if it comes to light that the subject is under 18, it will be removed and you will be warned not to post it again. Will we immediately ban you? Not necessarily. It depends, for example, on whether you could have been reasonably expected to know the person’s age. We’re serious about this, but we’re also reasonable.
Second, and this is important, I do not want to shame pedophiles for their condition. There is nothing to be gained in doing so. It is not chosen, curable, or voluntary, and people need to understand the burdens that those with the condition face. People might therefore wonder why I am so against sharing content (including fiction) that feature minors. My answer is that allowing that content to be shared here undermines or erodes norms that do protect real people from conduct that can harm them in various ways. Bob sends Tom a short story he wrote about a fictional child burping. Tom replies to Bob with a link to a real twelve-year old burping: “This is who she’s inspired by!” Bob watches the video and leaves a comment: “Wow. You’re a really good burper. Do you burp in any of your other videos?” And thus the lid of Pandora’s Box has been cracked.
The lenient policies on underage content are doubly confounding when you consider some of the language of the BFF server guidelines:
Please treat this discussion forum with the same respect you would a public park.
This is a public forum. Keep the language, links, and images suitable for their topic.
Clearly the mods here think (or claim to think) that this community should reflect the norms of decent society in some sense. That they would allow posts with minors in them on a fetish site is problematic, like–egh, “someone call neighborhood watch on these guys” level of problematic. This needs to change right now, especially since knowledge of the fetish is going more mainstream and people are becoming aware that we exist. What kinds of impressions will they form when they discover this community? If the policy on underage content is not changed, I doubt it will be a positive one.
(2) INADEQUATE POLICIES ON ABUSE AND HARASSMENT OF CONTENT CREATORS
Another issue concerns perennial conflicts between content creators and buyers. More often than I would like to see, certain people in this community are disparaging, manipulative, and retaliatory when they feel like content creators don’t give them what they want. This has resulted in many beloved content creators retiring out of fear, frustration, or disgust. Real examples that I don’t feel like digging up and quoting:
-Some models charge high prices on their videos. A member of this forum derides her as a “sex worker” and another as a “stripper”. His posts get flagged. The mods do nothing for… I think several weeks? And only after a huge argument breaks out.
-A content creator refuses to show her face. After requesting that she show it and being denied, a member of this community makes a post arguing that content creators who hide their faces are untrustworthy and should be boycotted. This is vengeful and/or manipulative, and clearly aimed at a certain person.
And so on. Behaviors like this particularly irk me. Since the mods, for a long time, haven’t really done much to push back against this sort of conduct, I and other people on the server have felt compelled to call out harassers. This usually results in long, angry arguments and “drama”. Arguably, I and others shouldn’t be taking justice into our own hands. But this strikes me as an unfair expectation if the mods themselves are not challenging the culture of harassment. If they don’t enforce these norms, other people are going to try to, and the result will be drama. The mods here can’t expect people here to observe their end of the social contract if they’re not observing theirs. Fortunately, on the new forums, I won’t need to get into arguments with people. If someone’s an entitled harasser I can just discipline them, legitimately. No drama necessary.
There have also long been issues with people making repeated requests on and off these forums for content creators to do things they don’t want to, even after being told to stop. I am unclear on whether the mods currently hold people responsible for their conduct off-forum, and I am not sure their stance on this has been consistent over the years. Things on the new forum are different. If you’re harassing another community member on another platform, you will not be welcome in the community. Sure, it’s on content creators to block you, but it’s also on us, the server staff, to enforce consequences for this sort of behavior so as to discourage it.
What we will do differently:
First, we have a core rule, “No Means No.” Here is the language of the rule:
If you ask someone to do something and they say no, drop it. This includes: asking them to burp for you, whether in a paid video or free, asking them to show their face, reveal parts of their body or do nudity; asking them to cater to another fetish; asking them to reply to messages or emails; or whatever. Nagging or repeatedly demanding that they do something will result in disciplinary action by the mods.
I am aware of the fact that the current BFF has rules like “be civil”. Sure, I suppose that technically the scope of this language extends to content-creator harassment. But the latter issue needs more emphasis and articulation than it currently receives. Hence the explicit, separate rule, “No Means No.”
I also notice there is also a rule against sharing Twitch streams to prevent harassment. While I suppose this is better than nothing, I still believe there need to be more general rules against harassment in general. Since this is a kink space, these rules need to be more emphasized and passionately advocated for than they have been. And based on their performance over the years, I just do not get the impression that the current mods are passionate advocates of these norms.
Second we have guidelines for buying and selling custom content. These guidelines are in place, again, to discourage harassment, but also to prevent and adjudicate the perennial conflicts between buyers and sellers that often lead to these issues and to hold scammers accountable. Here is the specific language of those guidelines:
When buying/selling customs, it’s a good idea to mutually agree on a deadline before exchanging money. Buyers: be reasonable and respect the content creator’s time. Also understand that sometimes life happens and things don’t get done on time. Content creators: give yourself time and don’t take on commitments hastily. Also understand that if someone pays you money, you have a responsibility to either deliver in a timely fashion or give them a refund if you cannot complete the order.
Other guidelines to remember:
Content Creators have the right to charge whatever they want and to decline requests. Publicly shaming or berating a content creator for not catering to your wishes is frowned upon.
Remember rule #2, no means no. .
We will be citing and enforcing these guidelines in the new community. Hopefully this will lessen some of the problems that exist here.
Third: commercial content creators are allowed to be moderators. Indeed, one of them is a site administrator and owns the affiliated Discord server. I am not aware of any strict rule on the BFF disallowing content creators from being mods, but as I see it there are considerable advantages to doing so, namely, content creators can have their concerns represented. Right now the current BFF is heavily slanted towards the interests of buyers. And, given the demography of this forum, that means it is largely a boys club.
You might object that allowing commercial content creators opens up the possibility of abuse, viz a viz suppressing content by other content creators in order to edge them out of the market. I do not believe this will be an issue. Any content creator-mod who does this will be summarily punished. Since people want novelty and diversity in the fetish market, there is a very strong community interest them not doing so. @FaunaLovesYou is an admin, as I said, and @MagentaChest and @cburps are both mods. I’ve been running the Discord with their help and so far there have been no issues with content creator suppression.
(3) LACK OF MODERATION
In addition to these inadequacies in the server policies, the current mods have not been effective in enforcing those rules that do exist. This is because there are only five of them and @Umbris seems to be the only one who is consistently active. I am aware of the still unfulfilled plan to hire new mods. That plan hasn’t materialized yet, so I’m not really sure how to respond other than to shrug my shoulders. Pirated content is everywhere, as is other miscellaneous creepy shit. Eg., at least one person in this community has posted non-consensual recordings of women burping (illegal, depending on locality and circumstances!). The mods saw this, didn’t care, and one of them even “liked” his posts.
Which brings me back to my point that the fundamental issue on this server is not, in fact, lack of moderation, even while that is certainly a problem. It largely comes down to the kinds of norms that the administrators of the site care about and are willing to enforce. Indeed, @Umbris, hiring new mods at this stage strikes me as premature. You need to reevaluate your guidelines, values, and general ethical vision for what kind of place this should be. I’m offering you mine, and I think it’s a better articulated, more coherent vision that is more in sync with contemporary norms, and where people will feel safer and more comfortable than I believe they feel here.
I am therefore not presently interested, as some have suggested, in moderating here, nor am I as of yet moved by the fact that the forum staff wants to hire new ones. The people picking those mods are the same people countenancing the kind of creepy conduct that I’ve described above, so I’m not sure whether the announcement that there will be more mods is occasion to rejoice or to shudder.
Final Thoughts:
The main disadvantage that the new forum has over the old one is that it is brand new, very small, and people are not yet posting there. That either changes or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, well, at least I tried. But I feel like there are incentives for it to happen. For one thing, content creators have an incentive to post there and not here, owing to our policies and the way in which they more fairly represent the rights and interests of content creators than the policies here do. If you post there, people will follow, and so will the money. Furthermore, once the site receives more traffic it will be indexed by Google. It can then be easily found by new people with the fetish, and at present its name, “The New Burp Fetish Forum”, makes it much more easily identifiable than the present “BFForum”. Since the community is actually moderated, and since the policies actually make sense, I am not particularly concerned about an influx of new people.
Time and again people have made suggestions for the policies, norms, and guidelines within this community. The mods sometimes reply, but little seems to have been done. Your staff has had years to do this. Meanwhile, my friends and I have done it in less than three weeks. IMHO, it wasn’t actually that hard.
We have an intelligent, cool, funny, compassionate team of mods there, presently consisting of myself, @FaunaLovesYou, @anon33560534, @anon22573514, @Rowi, @MagentaChest, and @cburps. We are also interested in adding new mods, and if you like the stuff I’ve said here PM me and your interest will be noted!
Anyway, I wish you all the best @Umbris and @moderators.