It seems that a certain subset of users just like, really, really want to argue and debate philosophy/ethics on here. That’s fine and all, but it’s de-railing threads, and I don’t think most people find it very fun, so unless it fits the topic, it’ll be moved here, where you can continue to discuss to your hearts content.
It is not my intention to censor this type of discussion, but rather move it into a focused area.
This includes, but is not limited to:
- “You’re a bigot, I’m not”
- “I’m a good person, you’re not”
- “Rah-Rah” Campaigns Against Other Users or Topics
- AI Debates
- Politics
- Fetish Ethics/Psychology
- And so on
This is a mostly unrestricted area, so… go nuts, I guess. That is all.
Carry on.
4 Likes
On the same page just means being able to collaborate. I’m just saying it seems you chose someone who is most ideologically aligned with you, which doesn’t feel very democratic.
4 Likes
There’s often an aesthetic argument in other spaces, too. Not just the concern about bots and slop, but also the ethical/existential concern regarding our relationship with generated content. This space was going to face such concerns inevitably. Behold, they have come.
While I understand the curiosity for the AI generated content, I certainly don’t support it. I think it promotes a further alienation from sexuality and ethics that is already a common issue in online fetish spaces. I’m not a Luddite but I’m certainly a critic. Everyone should be a critic of this technology. It fundamentally changes our relationship with technological media.
Ironically, I do agree with many of @DeaeRuctum ‘s philosophical concerns/assertions. I just utterly disagree with her rhetoric. I believe the topic deserves nuance rather than moral absolutism.
Moral absolutism got us into the Modern Situation. It won’t get us out.
6 Likes
What would you consider to be the ethical concerns regarding AI content? How would you define alienation from sexuality and ethics?
1 Like
I will absolutely respond to these questions in better detail but I may make it a whole new topic (Level 2) because I think this has come up across enough topics to warrant its own for further community discourse.
What I will say briefly here is simple:
-
Resource management, intellectual stagnation, cultural integration, and aesthetic dilution. I will explain all this bullshit jargon later.
-
Alienation is best defined in the Marxist sense of the term. I think AI risks a detachment between users and their capacity for innovation. When you have a tool that generates innovation, it invites a circumstance where people lose the ability for self-innovation. Just as how in modern labour practice the worker is alienated from their labour, so too may the modern thinker become alienated from their thinking. By extension, this could lead to an alienation from sexuality, ethics, and other mental processes. It may seem like a terribly speculative concern, but given the relevance of our alienation from labour in modern capitalist society, I think it would be warranted to hold the concern as we head into a modern technofeudalist society.
That’s the best I can offer at the moment but I will work on a more detailed explanation for my concerns—one that will hopefully speak to the other concerns voiced and offer some clarity to those who may not understand why the Machine poses such an existential and emotionally charged risk. Again, I will state that I am a fatalist on this topic. I don’t believe we can put it back in the box. Thus, my opinions are intended to force open discourse rather than prescribe ultimatums or courses of action. Such things are what we must conclude together based on effective, compassionate and humanist/ecological discourse.
3 Likes
random thought but, is there any way to confirm that the data sets that AI audio programs use don’t contain underage content? Because regardless of any other concerns, that would seem pretty immediately damning for any AI audio content getting posted here IMO
A relevant question but I think it would sooner introduce a Ship of Theseus dilemma than a genuine ethical inquiry (though, I think your question offers a genuine ethical inquiry). If AI “art” is not “art,” then you have to call into question the intrinsic status of anything generated by the Machine. If AI is trained on art but doesn’t produce art then what is produced by an AI trained on burping audio? Is it burping? Or is it a true ‘fake burping’? What is the role of ethical concern in the training data? Does something that approximates content require the same ethical detail as genuine content? Does generated content, through appropriation of trained data, acquire the intrinsic moral weight of the training data?
It opens a lot of avenues for debate. My perception would be that generated burping is simply not burping and so why should we be interested in it? Why should we try and fool ourselves while real, human gas exists? Furthermore, presuming the such audio is trained of the audio of children and non-consenting adults, do we really want to support such technology? Seems terribly relevant to my whole discourse here.
I would be inclined to assert that generated burping shouldn’t be allowed on the fetish site until closer ethical considerations are taken by the administration and moderation of the site. It deserves scrutiny.
Thanks for makin’ the dedicated space @TheTraveler! Hope we’ll have some good and productive discussion here.
I appreciate the title, “Philosophy of the Wind.” Makes sense while also offering a clever pun: venting our ethical grievances.
1 Like
I thought you might appreciate this. I’ll probably make a post later today about my modding philosophy and how I plan on consolidating a lot of stuff, but yeah, I’ll get to that later 
Anyway, uh… crack each other’s skulls (verbally, or I’ll have to contact the guards)
1 Like
No need to anticipate violence, friend. While there may be heated debate at times, I hope we can all endeavour to take each other a bit less serious, especially in a comically serious thread like this. 
1 Like
I strongly disagree with the creation of this thread (though I suppose as one of “a certain subset of users” it’s exactly designed to contain the ways I tend to engage with the fetish and the forum so my disapproval means this is doing its job). We already have a discussion category that feels designed for many of these kind of subjects and users who are just here for content can ignore that category. This feels like an attempt, intentionally or not, to flatten the intellectual capabilities of this forum by ghettoing off any thoughts that go beyond sharing content or talking about things in a way people can also get off to. Instead of splitting the other discussion into this thread, make an AI thread, like was already suggested. This just feels like ghetto-ing off people you find annoying, not actually creating a space for this kind of discussion, which, frankly, is what I’m here to read about. I’d suggest this should be a category instead of a thread but we, again, already have discussion which is for basically all of the things you mentioned. I would strongly urge you @TheTraveler to reconsider this and I want to draw attention to this thread to the other mods because the ramifications of a thread like this seem extemely dangerous to what this forum will be in the future.
@Q
@Aristhan
@dittodood
@Rosy
@Umbris
5 Likes
Q liked the thread, so he already approved. Trying to sow discord isn’t going to do much, I don’t think. After how you’ve been acting here, I don’t trust you to be making suggestions, being pro-murder and suicide and all that. I don’t think the cry-bullying is going to work this time.
I made this thread in part for Shadow, as I know he loves this sort of thing, and he’s a very good friend of mine.
Also, if you’d actually READ the thread, you’d notice the “unless it fits the topic” part. AI had nothing to do with the moderator changes section, so I moved it. If you want to make a thread for whinging, that is still very much allowed. Simple as.
I did read it. I really have no issue with moving the AI discussion from moderator changes, or anything else that moves beyond its original subject. But I think it ought to have its own dedicated thread. Just like every philosophical discussion probably should have its own thread. Putting everything in one thread just seems like its going to be a mess and basically unreadable/unfollowable, especially if its just for decontextualized scraps of other threads’ discussions. If you value Shadow’s contribution (as I do too even if we sometimes disagree a little), why would you want to move his most thought out points to a single thread where they’re harder to read and keep track of. Whether intentional or not, if you actually focus your moderation on keeping those kind of posts in a single thread like this, you will inevitably discourage exactly that kind of posting.
3 Likes
Well, we can figure all the logistics out as we go. Not that big of a deal. The simple fact is that threads keep getting derailed, and we have to do something about that, because 98% of users don’t want to hear about dialectical materialism or whatever on a burp fetish forum.
I’m not really sure how you “figure out logistics” when it’s a fundamental issue with the concept of this thread. This is a bad solution. Frankly, I think if dialectical materialism is necessary to explain a topic relevant to a discussion, it belongs. If the discussion has gotten off the topic where it’s not relevant, it should be a new thread. plain and simple.
1 Like
We can experiment with options and see what works and what the community likes. But for now, this is going to be the way it is. In the meantime, you can make whatever threads you like. I know you don’t like it, but I’ve never seen you like anything, so I have to take the broader forum in mind, here. Plain and simple.
1 Like
well if you’d been here longer than 8 months maybe you’d have seen the stuff I like…
I’ve been here a long time and posted a lot of stuff over the years. I don’t think you’re the authority on what this forum is or should be even if you have a badge by your name
Oh no! Pulling rank?! what am I to do? :O
You’re one of the forum’s top bullies right now. Your opinion of me means nothing.
I do personally think it’s pretty weird that you’ve been on the forum for less than a year and given the first moderator position since 2019. Like, that’s weird. Especially when you’re a totally decent poster, but you haven’t really added that much of note IMO and don’t really seem to have a lot of ideas for moderation policy. like, idk. just a weird choice on Q’s part that I still don’t really see the logic behind. I have nothing really against you, but I’m questioning your early moderation choices. Closing the AI thread in the middle of a discussion caused it to spill over into other threads which could have been avoided by leaving it open and making a dedicated thread for it, but instead you opted then not to make a dedicated thread for AI but instead to collect an extremely broad style of posting. Like, I really do think you’re a nice, friendly guy, but this all seems like kind of a mess caused by poor moderation
1 Like
A dedicated debate thread to move posts to that are off topic in other threads is okay imo. There’s the random chat thread but that’s not really supposed to be for arguing.
1 Like